YOXALL-L Archives

Archiver > YOXALL > 2005-05 > 1116184198


From: "Bob Kirk" <>
Subject: Re: Margaret Ellen YOXALL (b1852)
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 20:10:01 +0100
References: <002501c557d1$a43909b0$6a141352@bob> <003701c55829$3fdd0540$0100000a@oemcji2jbc803c> <005101c5588b$d9c7b710$ea161352@bob> <001901c5594d$b72cfd60$0100000a@oemcji2jbc803c>


Hi Joan

I do have the details of the John KIRK, Elizabeth LAWTON marriage viz:

Manchester Cathedral
July 2 1843
John KIRK. full, Bach, Carter, 50 Little Bridgewater St., Thomas KIRK,
Joiner.
Elizabeth LAWTON, full, Spin, 5 Crescent Ancotes, Ephriam LAWTON, Carter.
Both signed.
Witnesses: James BALDWIN & Charles ANDREW.

I don't think that this marriage fits into my lot but one never knows.

With the introduction of the 1851 census on Ancestry.com I discovered
another John(b1807) & Elizabeth KIRK which blew a hole in my family history
web page as published. This John & Elizabeth had moved out of Coppenhall
and moved to Manchester/Salford where they were married and had a family.
She is the Elizabeth LATHAM who I had previously married off to John KIRK
(b1813). I now think that it is this latter John KIRK (b1813) who marries
Elizabeth POOLE and is the one who is associated with Margaret Ellen YOXALL
in the 1861 census. I need to take a look at the parish registers for
Warmingham.

Watch this space.

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joan Gallagher" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Margaret Ellen YOXALL (b1852)


> Bob, regarding your thoughts as to whether Elizabeth and Ellen are maybe
> the same person, I've no doubt you have already checked the following two
> marriages out but I thought I'd mention them in case you haven't. These
> are from the IGI
>
> John KIRK marrying Ellen POOLE on 29 December 1835 at Warmingham.
> John KIRK marrying Elizabeth LAWTON on 2 July 1843 at Manchester
> Cathedral.
>
> As the 1861 census shows Ellen to have been born in Warmingham, the
> Warmingham marriage seems to be the correct one relating to that
> particular John and Ellen. A bit off putting the fact that on the 1871
> census she is listed as being born at Wharton, but I have found in a
> number of cases in my own family history at times they have tended to give
> their birthplace as the place where the census was taken...also not to be
> forgotten is the way people spoke (and heard!) so maybe Wharton could have
> been wrongly noted for Warmingham.
>
> As the John KIRK/Elizabeth LAWTON marriage took place between 1835 and
> the1861 census I can only think that this was a different John KIRK
> altogether. I haven't seen the entry in the 1851 census, but were John
> and Elizabeth living in Cheshire then or were they in the Manchester area?
> It's just that people from all sorts of places would sometimes choose
> Manchester Cathedral to get married so there's no telling where this John
> and Elizabeth came from.
>
> Then again, as you say, Elizabeth and Ellen could be one and the same
> person. How did Elizabeth's age on the 1851 census compare with Ellen's
> age on the 1861 census?
>
> Yes, it is fun, speaking for myself I enjoy some of these little
> mysteries, definitely helps to keep the brain ticking over!
>
> Cheers......Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Kirk" <>
> To: "Joan Gallagher" <>; <>
> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Margaret Ellen YOXALL (b1852)
>
>
>> Hi Joan
>>
>> Thanks for the feed back. I think I'll save my pennies in this case.
>>
>> The BAKER reference was interesting as in 1851 there is a John BAKER
>> staying with John & Elizabeth KIRK. I'm still trying to sort out if
>> Elizabeth & Ellen are one and the same or did Elizabeth die and John
>> remarried an Ellen.
>>
>> Fun isn't it?
>>
>> Bob KIRK
>> Dukinfield
>> Cheshire
>>
>> Http://KirkSoft.co.uk
>>
>> www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm
>>
>> Interests Are:
>> KIRK (Crewe & Manchester)
>> DAWSON (Manchester)
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joan Gallagher" <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: Margaret Ellen YOXALL (b1852)
>>
>>
>>> Bob, the only bit of information I have on her is that she was the
>>> illegitimate daughter of Hannah YOXALL. Her baptism is taken from the
>>> Middlewich Parish Records:-
>>>
>>> 27 September 1852
>>>
>>> Margaret Ellen d/o Hannah YOXALL, Winsford, Spinster.
>>>
>>> Sorry I don't know (yet) which Hannah this is. I really only have one
>>> Hannah in my records who would be of the right age to fit the bill and
>>> that is Hannah Baker YOXALL, who was baptised at Middlewich on 6 May
>>> 1829. She was the daughter of John YOXALL and Ellen BAKER. Ellen died
>>> quite young and John went to Lancashire, re-married and had more
>>> children. I don't know what became of Hannah.
>>>
>>> Seeing as Margaret Ellen was the illegitimate daughter of Hannah I'm not
>>> too sure you will gain much more information by buying the certificates.
>>>
>>> Best wishes..........Joan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bob Kirk" <>
>>> To: <>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:07 AM
>>> Subject: Margaret Ellen YOXALL (b1852)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Does anyone have any more details on this lady? Margaret Ellen YOXALL
>>>> (b1852)
>>>>
>>>> She first appears 'Boarding' with John KIRK and his wife Ellen on the
>>>> 1861 census in Wharton. She is aged 8 yrs.
>>>>
>>>> She then appears on the 1871 census as the daughter of John & Ellen
>>>> KIRK aged 18ys.
>>>>
>>>> On the 1881 census I believe she is married to John Fryer.
>>>>
>>>> I have the references for her Birth Certificate WI/08/068 and Marriage
>>>> Certificate NOR/5/105 from CheshireBMD. Before I go ahead and purchase
>>>> these certificates I was hoping someone might have a bit more
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob KIRK
>>>> Dukinfield
>>>> Cheshire
>>>>
>>>> Http://KirkSoft.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> www.fhsc.org.uk/fhsc/dukinfield.htm
>>>>
>>>> Interests Are:
>>>> KIRK (Crewe & Manchester)
>>>> DAWSON (Manchester)
>>>>
>>>> ==============================
>>>> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the
>>>> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more:
>>>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==============================
>>> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find
>>> marriage announcements and more. Learn more:
>>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ==============================
> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the
> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more:
> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx
>

This thread: